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Lies in a marriage - 7th Century Generation - Page 3

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Lies in a marriage


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#31 Al-Siddiq

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 06:06 AM

View PostRajiyat al Firdaws, on 08 June 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

Assalamu alaikum,

If you're looking for the ruling on this matter then the ruling is that it is obligatory upon the potential spouse to state any major deficiency (if they are aware of it), and infertility is one of those major deficiencies.

If however, the spouse conceals this deficiency then the man has the right to annul the marriage and take back the dowry.

Listen from 20 minutes on ward...

Wallahu alam


Waalaikum as salam,

Why is it obligatory? And what is considered a major deficiency? When you have time, if you could share what you know inshAllah =).


View PostInitial Poster, on 14 April 2011 - 12:22 AM, said:

Jazak Allah Kheir Brother Al-Sidiq. I would appreciate (and await) a more detailed answer from you.May Allah (swt) reward you for your wisdom (Aamin).



Wayyakum. I am still looking, because this is actually a lot more complex than it looks on the surface. And unfortunately, you find people all too willing to answer but in this day and age people tend to lack understanding. These topics are very very intricate. Currently I am going through bidayat al mujtahid to see what I can find!

#32 Al-Siddiq

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 06:31 AM

Assalamu alaikum,

Ok so alhamdulilah I have some answers, but only some.

Firstly, I read in the social system of islam by Hizb-ut-tahrir that it is recommended that the woman be fertile due to the many ahadith on the topic. Therefore, it is good to know based on the knowledge of her mother and paternal/maternal aunts of fertility. There are numerous evidences and I will post them if need be inshAllah (I have to cut back due to lack of time).

Secondly, I read a few more things in bidayat al mujtahid by ibn rushd (and reviewed by other classic scholars).

(If this gets too complicated let me know, I will try to simplify it as best as I can).

When a marriage contract is signed, according to this there are four causes for having an option in the marriage.

Of them we focus on the one regarding defects (which is what you are talking about). To be more specific, which defects there are.

Imam Malik and Imam shafi agreed that you could revoke based on four defects: insanity, leprosy, a disease called baras, and a disease of the sex organ that prevents intimacy (the actual act itself to avoid being vulgar).

The disciples of imam malik disagreed on a further four though: black color, baldness, excessive odor from a woman's private area, and foul breath.

Abu Hanifa, his disciples, and al thawri said a woman cannot be rejected except for two defects, which are the two different types within the sex organ disease mentioned earlier that prevents intimacy.



So based upon the mujtahid you follow, we can go on about what we do if the husband knows before they are intimate vs after, and the other factors.



I'm sorry if this is complex! If you simply wanted a straightforward answer, I woudl give it to you based on the mujtahideen I follow (imam Shafi, imam Shawkani, shaykh Taqiuddin al-Nabhani).


It is a really intricate topic like I said subhanAllah. Let me know your thoughts first inshAllah, and we will see where to go from there ukhti!

Again, don't worry if it's complex, we will get the answers needed inshAllah :).

And Allah is the Lord of all knowledge and wisdom.

Waalaikum as salam

Edited by Al-Siddiq, 16 June 2011 - 06:32 AM.


#33 UmmMaryam

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:02 AM

View PostRain, on 05 April 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

I feel so sorry for your brother and family. If he doesn't get married again or doesn't divorce her, he won't have children. In the future, he'll look at you and your other siblings, family, friends etc. having children and he'd feel so left out. This is so unfair on him.

I think he should consult a scholar and see what happens. All the best iA.


I really like your response sis, I agree with this. Im seeing sisters back the sister with the problem and brothers responding with polygamy. BUt the actual issue is the brother himself, his plight and sadness. I think he should take his own decision , whatever makes him happy, polygamy, divorce or just staying as is. Marriage in Islam is not only emotional, it serves practical purpose of having children as well, which is practical and also emotional. I do not support that sister for hiding the fact that she cannot have children, it is deception for the purpose of marriage and I would not applaud her for telling the truth now when it was always an obligation for her from the start. There is an issue of trust and it is so important in a marriage, if trust is broken it is so difficult to get that back again. This marriage would need a lot of work and counseling if the brother decides to keep the marriage with the sister. That sister must learn an important lesson here, whatever the outcome and especially if they want to work out the marriage. Allah swt supports the truth and does not support falsehood. So sisters stop saying goodwill mercy and kindness need to be shown by the brother when the sister herself did not show it at the beginning by choosing not to tell him about this, which is serious and she herself fell short in keeping her trust in Allah swt that Allah swt will give her a husband despite her problem, by hiding the truth. The sister herself did not apply the same values and morals you are imposing on the brother now. No matter what her parents say, she is an adult and is accountable for her own actions. And it is not fair on the brother. But he decides, no one else, not the posting brother, not his parents and not us.There is no blame on the brother if he decides divorce or polygamy, none at all because he has a right to have children and the sister withheld an important information from him. If he decides to go with the marriage, he will need to accept the fact that he MAY never have children with her. Only if he accepts this fact and keeps sabr can he have a happy marriage with this sister, otherwise it will be much worse if he decides to divorce further down the marriage, and it will be much worse for the sister as well.

Edited by UmmMaryam, 24 June 2011 - 01:14 AM.


#34 ghazala

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:03 AM

That sister must learn an important lesson here, whatever the outcome and especially if they want to work out the marriage. Allah swt supports the truth and does not support falsehood. So sisters stop saying goodwill mercy and kindness need to be shown by the brother when the sister herself did not show it at the beginning by choosing not to tell him about this, which is serious and she herself fell short in keeping her trust in Allah swt that Allah swt will give her a husband despite her problem, by hiding the truth.

indeed Allah supports the truth .....

stop saying mercy and kindness ?

check this ayah out sis

"{"Show forgiveness, enjoin what is good, and turn away from the foolish."} [al-A'raf; 199]"

that dosent mean that if someone does a mistake then u also need to treat them that way sis... so she fell short agreed does that mean that the bro should also fall short in his treatment? is that what u thing " tit for tat " attitude will work?

thats what i always tell none of us are perfect she fell short in having trust in Allah that very moment and when she had her iman on high Alhumdulillah she told it .... so now tell me is she still wrong u feel?
. No matter what her parents say, she is an adult and is accountable for her own actions.
and never forget that shaitan is always behind a person.... also remember that if some one commits a mistake and then repent back ... when Allah forgives us so easily y cant we forgive his banda's(slaves) being a slave to Allah so easily?

our faith(iman) wears and tears out .... its never constant....

so stop expecting always good .... we are humans and we by default make mistakes and forget ....

khayr Allahu Alim....

i aint supporting anyone in this but i expect people to be best in there own deeds.....


When you put your hope for love, praise, success, happiness, and recognition in the people, you will walk away disappointed with a broken heart. It is only when you put this hope in Allah will your heart and soul find peace, relief, and pleasure. Indeed Allah speaks the truth in the Qur'aan: "Verily, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest. (13:28)"



Edited by ghazala, 24 June 2011 - 03:06 AM.


#35 UmmMaryam

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 10:37 AM

its not about tit for tat. Dont you think that "nobody's perfect" excuse should apply equally to brothers as you are applying to sisters? Here we are, sisters so casually stating that he should be "kind and merciful" which is akin to stating that he should give up his Allah given right to be a father, a grandfather and all of life's rich experience and blessings that it brings with it.Do any of you know what life is like without children to be promoting it? We dont even know this brother, for Allah's sake, doesnt this brother deserve mercy and kindness too? Why didnt the sister think about him at the point when he's her potential husband, how he would feel about this, not about her not being able to have a baby, but about withholding this information from him, about a potential breach of his trust and how about his feelings and right to have children? If she was honest, maybe the brother would have accepted her anyway and all this drama may have not existed. Allah swt would have given her a better husband if that brother rejected her because of her courage to state the truth, because I am not undermining her plight or understating this big test that she is going through. This is a marriage not a business transaction, when trust is broken, no one wins. Its about trust. Will the sister lie everytime life gets hard and the outcome may not be favourable for her by telling the truth?

My bottom line is, I think the brother should be free from any pressure to make his own decision. He should decide on his own what would make him happy. If he decides to stay with her, he needs to set some ground rules around trust and lying. IT is not a trivial thing in marriage, it is serious. Also in marriage, there is no room for selfishness
. An action which brings benefit to the wife at the expense of the husband and vice versa is not an option, seriously, you wouldnt do that to someone you love or grow to love.

Edited by UmmMaryam, 26 June 2011 - 10:48 AM.


#36 ghazala

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 05:01 PM

khayr sis Allahu Alim :)

i have stated what i wanted to say and hidiyat and mercy or not is in the hands of The all known er ....

no matter how much we tell or think of this situations we cant really get in there shoe to know what there feelings are so i would not comment further ..... and i dont take any bias on being a male or female.... coz i know that Allah has created us like humans and assigned us with different responsibility but the reward is equal although... i would always take the way of mercy and kindness coz i know if i want mercy from my lord then no matter what i need to show mercy even though ppl give us blood tears in eyes .... khayr i dont know much about any topics but i know always good wins over bad and even if the case is opposite in dunya ...my reward will be restored in the akhira .... :)

May Allah bless the bro with correct knowledge and may he bless both the bro and sis with a better life then there imagination ameen

#37 Muharrir

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 03:46 AM

Salaams,

i know of a marriage counsellor who is avilable for advice let me know if you want his details. he is also a shaykh has been giving advice for many years now.

you should also get your brother to sit down with a shaykh and ask for advice, if he doesnt want to yet then you (as the brother in law) should do so and then give your brother sincere nasiha.

personally i think you should encourage discussion, as difficult as it may be, between your brother and sister in law. this is critical.

forums not the best place to come bro. worth a shot, but you/your brother needs some realtime advice.

'alayk assalam,

Muharrir

#38 ghazala

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 09:22 PM

The Angel of God advised me so many times about women that I
became convinced that it is not lawful for a man to divorce his wife,
except when she commits adultery. (Irshad al-Muhtaj, Huquq al-Azwaj).


#39 ayesha.ansari

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:30 AM

Yup second marry is the solution to have kids... If first wife permit him other wise he can divorced her.

#40 Salaam

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:19 PM

a man does not need his wifes permission to get a second wife, its upto him, the onlytime a wife has that power is if before marriage she puts it in her marriage contract he cant have a second wife as long as he is with her

something corelated

Problems caused by wife’s illness


My brother married a woman who suffers from retinal atrophy, and he did not know anything about her sickness until two months ago. All he knew was that her vision was weak, and he got married to her. Now he is wondering whether he should separate from her because he feels that she will not be able to raise his children properly if she has children.
He is always arguing with her mother because she speaks badly to him and he thinks that she bewitched him to make him marry her daughter. Now he cannot control his anger most of the time and he beats his wife, and he insults her in horrible terms. I hope you can suggest what is best for them.
Praise be to Allaah.
What you have mentioned about her suffering from retinal atrophy is not one of the faults which the fuqaha’ have stated give the husband the choice of annulling the marriage. But some scholars, such as Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, and Ibn al-Qayyim – and Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen who regarded it as being the correct view – narrated that every fault which puts the other spouse off, so that the purposes of marriage, namely compassion and love, cannot be achieved, mean that the spouse has the choice of annulling the marriage. (Zaad al-Ma’aad, 5/163)
Based on this, the choice of annulment is given in every case where there is a fault that affects the purposes of marriage, namely love, intimacy, bearing children, etc.
But your brother came to know of this fault after that, and he did things which indicate that he accepted that, namely continuing to be intimate with her and not hastening to annul the marriage. According to the fuqaha’ this indicates that he accepts it, and that he does not have the right to annul the marriage.
But as you know, divorce is the man’s right and he may divorce his wife if he thinks that he cannot live a good life with her and that he cannot feel love for her and feel at ease with her, which is the basis of marriage.
What we advise in such situations is to be patient with this wife and try to solve the problem. If her mother is the main reason for the problems, then it is better to keep a distance from her and to live in separate accommodation. If your brother lives in the same house as her or nearby, then it is sufficient to keep in touch by phone and pay brief visits, etc. If the wife’s bad attitude is the reason for the problem, then your brother should check himself and how he treats his wife, for the way he treats her, beating her and calling her names, may be the reason for her bad attitude. He should seek the help of people who have experience in dealing with such problems, and try different ways of finding a solution to each problem.
Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allaah brings through it a great deal of good”


[al-Nisa’ 4:19]
If it is too much for him and he finds that there is no way to solve the problem or to live peacefully with his wife, then there is no sin in divorcing her; in this case she is entitled to the mahr because the marriage has been consummated. And Allaah knows best.
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#41 UmmMaryam

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:13 AM

View Postghazala, on 18 September 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

The Angel of God advised me so many times about women that I
became convinced that it is not lawful for a man to divorce his wife,
except when she commits adultery. (Irshad al-Muhtaj, Huquq al-Azwaj).

I have never ever heard this hadith, this goes against so many hadith and scholarly opinions about men divorce, not to mention quran ayat which speaks of disobedience generally , not even adultary

Edited by UmmMaryam, 01 November 2011 - 12:16 AM.





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