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Karamat ul Awliya


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#1 asd

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 06:04 PM

Selam aleykum brothers and sisters,

I was reading some of your discussions(for example the punishment of the grave thread) and it seems that there are some brothers who have good knowledge mashaallah.
Can some of you explain the issue of karamat ul awliya? I'm asking because I know some sufis who are exaggerating and telling me that their shuyukh can fly and talk to angels etc. and on the other hand I know some brothers who dont believe in karamat ul awliya. What is the correct understanding of the issue and what did the scholars say concerning that topic?

#2 Abu-Musa

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Posted 01 October 2008 - 11:17 PM

Walaikum Salam.

Quote

"Karamat Al-Awliya' (The Miracles of the Saints)

Among the fundamentals of the people of the Sunnah and the Community is the belief in the miracles of the saints (Karamat al- Awliya): Allah created supernatural acts through them in all aspects of life, revelations (Mukashafat), power, and impressions. This is known of ancient nations in Surat al-Kahf (chapter 18) and in other Qur'anic chapters and is known of the early men of this 'Ummah amongst the Sahabah and the Tabi'un and amongst the rest of the generations of this 'Ummah. It will be with them to the Day of Resurrection." [al-Aqeedat al-Wasitiyyah - Shaykh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah]


#3 clarus-animi

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Posted 04 October 2008 - 06:08 PM

^^ I think this is a very difficult and a subjective topic.

Firstly such things cannot be verified indepndently but you believe it as a narration from someone else or you witness your self. Then someone else believes that from your narration if that person has trust in you.

#4 asd

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Posted 05 October 2008 - 01:35 AM

Selam aleykum ikhwan,

I think that Elton Chong's statement is important because it reflects the reality of many muslims. Many heard of the karamat ul awliya but when you ask them they cant explain it to you...
What is the difference between mu'ajiza and karama? Is the only difference the claim of prophethood concerning the one who performs mu'ajiza? Where are the evidences which establish the believe in karamt ul awliya nowadays(not speaking of the karama before the prophethood of Muhammed(s.a.s.))?
It would be great if some brothers or sisters who have some knowledge could give us some adilla and statements of the scholars so that we can see the clear and correct understanding of the issue...

@abu musa: thanks for posting the understanding of ibn Taymiyya(r.h.), it would be great if you could explain the issue in detail or answer the quesions above

#5 rambant

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 12:33 PM

What does Mu'ajiza mean? (And which language is it in...?)

#6 Mindful

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 02:39 PM

Salaams

mu'ijiaza more specifically means inimitability, many claim to have performed or witnessed karamat but mu'ijiza implies that no one can claim it or perform it save the one given that ability by Allah swt.

Also the term can indicate a form of challenge as well, any to say this is inimitable implies a challenge to any to try and imitate it.

So a further but not essential aspect of miracles by prophets is that they challenged the ppl with producing the like of it. which if they cant then they have to submit to the message they bring.

This is something that karamat are not necessarily subjected to ie challenge adn rebuttal to vigorously prove the authenticitiy of the miracle and the claim to prophethood.

#7 rambant

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 12:48 AM

JazakAllah khair- slighly confusing stuff but at least now I know the gist of the confusion.

#8 Muharrir

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Posted 07 October 2008 - 07:38 AM

Mujiza is also in urdu btw

#9 Brother D-A

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 08:16 PM

if you can, try get bustan al-'arifeen (i think that the name) by imaam al-nawawi which is available in english, it has a section on karamat. Also on mu'jizah try al-shifa by qadi iyad.

If you read arabic i also have al-laalika'i's book 'karamat al-awliyah' which i can put up here if you want.

#10 asd

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 04:12 PM

Selam aleykum,

thanks for your answers....
Akhi da Alchemist can I get the book of Imam Nawawi as a download or do I have do buy it? If so where can I download/buy the book.

ps:it would be great if you can put up the arabic book here...may Allah(s.w.t.) reward you for your effords.

Edited by asd, 13 October 2008 - 04:13 PM.


#11 Brother D-A

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:23 PM

salam brother

I'm quote tied up right now, I will if you want try and scan bustan al-'arifeen sections on karamat and upload the book on karama from al-laalika'i when I have time, sorry brother

#12 asd

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 04:07 PM

Selam aleykum akhi,

it would be great if you'd upload the book and the scanned sites. Thank you very much....

#13 Brother D-A

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 01:47 PM

As-salaamu 'alaikum akhee, I can't seem to be able to upload the book, I will try another way when I get the chance or pm me you email I will send it that way

#14 Brother D-A

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:17 PM

http://www.4shared.com/get/36477927/ab40da...DF6B771D3A.dc61

this is a book by shaykul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah(rahimahullah)

#15 Brother D-A

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Posted 22 October 2008 - 02:21 PM

http://www.archive.o...kaaag/kaaag.pdf

this is the book by imaam al-laalika'i I was tyring to upload

I will scn for you sections from bustan al-'arifeen when I have the chance bro (but it could be some time ;) )



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