56 replies to this topic

[Al-Siddiq]

I would like to make a comment to the people advising:

You are just as accountable to enjoin the good and forbid the evil as you are to the person themselves. Attacking the person might lead them to seeking advise in non-islamic ways and thus lead you to great accountability on the day of judgment.

Do not act on emotions, rather act on what is best Islamically.

[guest_1584]

^ really? so dont they get a second chance to think over and repent, etc?

[Saif-ur-Rahman]

This is a case of obsession...
You cannot control what others do, they are free to do as they wish just as we are all free to do as we wish.
We are all responsible for the consequences of our own actions and not that of others.

As other people have suggested, the actions taken would have done more damage than good, and probably hasn't helped the girl in any way, if anything, it would be enough to ruin her reputation and her relationship with her parents, family, friends and relatives. It was a selfish thing to do, it would have been better to have got someone to offer her some wise words, some friendly advise, and at least make Du'a for her than to take matters in your own hand in the manner in which you have done.

Get over this obsession, and seek Allah's guidance.
May Allah forgive and guide you and the girl in your separate paths.

[Al Muhajir]

Quote

Get over this obsession, and seek Allah's guidance.
May Allah forgive and guide you and the girl in your separate paths.

His actions are that of an obsessive stalker, what he feels is not actually a crush, its an obsession, and such obsessions never lead to anything good. The girl clearly just sees him as just an acquaintance, but he feels shes not reciprocating his affection, so it gets him furious when he sees her with another man(wouldnt matter if it was a muslim man), so he tries to get revenge and hurt her by doing what he did, which was never in her best interest..obsessive stalking can even lead to worse things like murder, its an illness.

[Asmaa]

Brother,
You need to come out clean with it and let her know everything, especially the reason why you did this. That's the only way out of it for you.

[guest_1584]

oh and seriously i think a different thread should be opened up about this murtad issue, because this is an advisory thread, the topic about killing murtads dont have much relevance to the person who started this thread asking for advice.

Edited by cyber_self, 05 October 2009 - 05:22 PM.

[Al Muhajir]

Quote

The hypocrites fear lest a surah should be revealed concerning them, proclaiming what is in their hearts. Say: Scoff (your fill)! Lo! Allah is disclosing what ye fear. (64)
And if thou ask them (O Muhammad) they will say: We did but talk and jest. Say: Was it at Allah and His revelations and His messenger that ye did scoff? (65)
Make no excuse. Ye have disbelieved after your belief. If We forgive a party of you, a party of you We shall punish because they have been guilty. (66)
The hypocrites, both men and women, proceed one from another. They enjoin the wrong, and they forbid the right, and they withhold their hands (from spending for the cause of Allah). They forget Allah, so He hath forgotten them. Lo! the hypocrites, they are the transgressors. (67)

Ok, this verse also talks about hypocrites, so its hypocrites who claim to believe then later disbelieve.

Edited by NEVESIRTH, 05 October 2009 - 07:03 PM.

[marriya]

NEVESIRTH, on Oct 5 2009, 08:21 PM, said:

Quote

Cutting the ties of the womb is a major sin. However cutting the neck of a murtad is a fardh (and that's the only means of 'removing' your family ties that I am aware of -- which are lawful.)

No sane person would cut his daughters neck for such a thing. A person who does that should also be killed.

Guest, on Oct 6 2009, 04:23 AM, said:

NEVESIRTH, on Oct 5 2009, 03:06 PM, said:

sorry, not an animal, worse than the filthiest animal...thank you. Give me proof from any hadith where anyone was praised for slaughtering his own daughter? I thought honour killing wasnt part of Islam?

`Abdullah ibn Mas`ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "The blood of a Muslim may not be legally spilt other than in one of three [instances]: the married person who commits adultery; a life for a life; and one who forsakes his religion and abandons the community." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Under Shariah law. which today is not available.
So Plz stop talking about Murtads, just makes you sound like some angry person out to get people who dont agree with Islam


Our emotions have no roll or say in matters concerning hudood. A murtad must be killed, regardless of their relation to us. The true muslim/mu'min does not have affection for someone who betrays the religion of His Lord I think this is particularlary interesting that we could turn on and off our emotions especially concerning relatives but even the wider population . I firmly believe that someone who turns away from Islam is doing more harm to THEMSELVES than they are to the community [ you and I] because say even if we had an 'Islamic' country that applied Shariah, they killed that person or they left that person alone, they would be held accountable to Allah on the Last Day. What Im getting at is, why cant we leave people to Allah [ not in cases of murder] but things like Iman etc.
. Our love and hate is based on what Allah SWT loves and hates

Quote

"You will not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, making friendship with those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred (people). For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with Ruh (proofs, light and true guidance) from Himself. And We will admit them to Gardens (Paradise) under which rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever). Allah is pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Verily, it is the Party of Allah that will be the successful.

Though of course the topic at hand (concerning the sister) is different and not an issue of irtidad

FlagBearer, on Oct 6 2009, 04:25 AM, said:

NEVESIRTH, on Oct 5 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

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Neversirth, I think you're confusing the issue? We arw talking about killing the murtaddeen, and I think Abu Ibrahim mentioned it in passing i.e. a daughter must be killed if she apostates. No one said you kill your daughters for committing a sin, na'udhubillaah!

So fatima rifqa bary who converted to christianity should be killed? What about our own 7cgen Aamina? or should we just go killing all the murtads who no longer follow Islam, who do not establish salaat? I still do not see any proof that murtads should be killed? Maybe under the khilafah, anyone who apostates can be killed, if the person was voluntrarily a muslim and not forced into Islam by anyone or by birth, is it better for someone who doesnt believe in Islam anymore to keep pretending and thus become a munafiq out of fear? or is it better for such person to just leave Islam? Of what use is a fake muslim? if someone did leave Islam, and they came from a predominately Muslim community, they would be naturally excluded as there is nothing in common with the rest of the people, it would put a strain on family ties and have adverse effects on the so called 'murtad' etc etc leaving Islam isnt beneficial whatsoever.

I thought that went without saying? No one's advocating taking the Shari'ah into our own hands. really that should be made very clear

I wonder why this whole murtad issue came up in this post? Do some people think this girl left Islam?
You can be sinful without being a kafir.

Edited by marriya, 05 October 2009 - 08:34 PM.

[marriya]

NEVESIRTH, on Oct 6 2009, 07:01 AM, said:

Quote

The hypocrites fear lest a surah should be revealed concerning them, proclaiming what is in their hearts. Say: Scoff (your fill)! Lo! Allah is disclosing what ye fear. (64)
And if thou ask them (O Muhammad) they will say: We did but talk and jest. Say: Was it at Allah and His revelations and His messenger that ye did scoff? (65)
Make no excuse. Ye have disbelieved after your belief. If We forgive a party of you, a party of you We shall punish because they have been guilty. (66)
The hypocrites, both men and women, proceed one from another. They enjoin the wrong, and they forbid the right, and they withhold their hands (from spending for the cause of Allah). They forget Allah, so He hath forgotten them. Lo! the hypocrites, they are the transgressors. (67)

Ok, this verse also talks about hypocrites, so its hypocrites who claim to believe then later disbelieve.

I heard once that ' people who leave Islam, actually NEVER believed in it in the first place' = munafiq?

Can you just go up to a person [ simply because you observed them doing toooo many actions that suggested they were Munafiq/Murtad/Faasiq etc] and say that to them?

The desired action in my opinion would be either to sit down and talk to that person, get to know them and offer them sincere advice, if that goes unheard, than to make Dua for them and TO MOVE ON. Your not responsible for their bad deeds, they themselves are.

[unknown]

marriya, on Oct 5 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

I wonder why this whole murtad issue came up in this post? Do some people think this girl left Islam?
You can be sinful without being a kafir.

What do you mean by that? That a sin is different for a muslim compared to a non muslim?

[Umm Ibrahim]

NEVESIRTH, on Oct 5 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Quote

The hypocrites fear lest a surah should be revealed concerning them, proclaiming what is in their hearts. Say: Scoff (your fill)! Lo! Allah is disclosing what ye fear. (64)
And if thou ask them (O Muhammad) they will say: We did but talk and jest. Say: Was it at Allah and His revelations and His messenger that ye did scoff? (65)
Make no excuse. Ye have disbelieved after your belief. If We forgive a party of you, a party of you We shall punish because they have been guilty. (66)
The hypocrites, both men and women, proceed one from another. They enjoin the wrong, and they forbid the right, and they withhold their hands (from spending for the cause of Allah). They forget Allah, so He hath forgotten them. Lo! the hypocrites, they are the transgressors. (67)

Ok, this verse also talks about hypocrites, so its hypocrites who claim to believe then later disbelieve.

where did you find the word "claim" to believe?

[marriya]

>>>>>you can be sinful without disbelieving in Allah.

[Al Muhajir]

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where did you find the word "claim" to believe?

A hypocrite is someone who says he believes when with the muslims, but when with the kaffir he mocks the muslim and says he was just joking(Its in the Qur'an), So such a person claims to believe but doesnt really believe.

[unknown]

marriya, on Oct 5 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

>>>>>you can be sinful without disbelieving in Allah.

Sorry my mistake. I read it wrong first time round.

[Umm Ibrahim]

NEVESIRTH, on Oct 5 2009, 04:11 PM, said:

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where did you find the word "claim" to believe?

A hypocrite is someone who says he believes when with the muslims, but when with the kaffir he mocks the muslim and says he was just joking(Its in the Qur'an), So such a person claims to believe but doesnt really believe.

na'am, yes, i agree with the definition for hypocrite. but where in the quran (the ayyats in surat tawbah), when Allah (swt) ordered the prohet (saw) to address/expose them, did you find the word "claim"? i'm only asking because i agree that the set of ayyats are referring to hypocrites but i understood that what they are accused of believing at one point, and disbelieving at another.